Thuy’s third book, Essence, explores different creative art forms and manipulates language conventions to create a captivating poetry collection, drawing on the eternal themes of love, lust, and loss. In this interview, Thuy chats with UWAP intern Maria Kakani, deep diving into her experience writing Essence, her career as a critic and poet, and the evolution of her writing journey.
Thuy On is the Reviews and Literary Editor of ArtsHub. She is an arts journalist, critic, editor and poet. Her previous two books of poetry, Turbulence (2020) and Decadence (2022) were released by UWA Publishing, and have been shortlisted for the Mary Gilmore Prize and longlisted for the Stella Prize. Author photo by David Boarder Giles.
Maria Kakani: This book "extends its reach into other creative forms, with poems about live performance, visual arts, film and song." Why choose this subject?
Thuy On: This is mainly because of my day job. I’m the Reviews and Literary Editor of ArtsHub, an online arts and culture publication. So, the main responsibilities of my day job are to commission, edit and publish reviews of exhibitions, live performance, and books across the country.
I’ve been with ArtsHub for about three-and-a-half years, but my career as an arts/literary journalist began 25 years ago. During that time, I have seen a lot of shows and I have read a lot of books, so I thought it would be interesting to turn some of them into poetry. Most people who are interested in the arts would know what books, paintings, film and live performance I’m talking about in the first third of Essence.
So, writing about the arts in poetic form is a kind of bridge between my day job and my poetry practice. I also have a Degree in English Literature, so hence there are quite a number of references to classic texts (particularly in the first section of Essence). I thought well, may as well use my degree in some way!
M: In Essence, we see you turn your work as a literary and arts critic into art itself. How does your poetic way of conveying your opinion differ from a more formal review?
T: It’s more personal, I guess. When I’m doing a formal review, there are strictures in place. You have to try to be objective, and obviously, at several hundred words apiece, an arts review is much longer than a poem – or at least the type I write. That’s partly where the title of the collection comes from: Essence. I’m trying to get to the essence of the work, or the moment, or the feeling, whatever they may be.
M: Was there any intentional experimentation with form and style in Essence?
T: Yes, there was. For example, the form of my poem ‘Deflation’ was deliberate, because I wanted to construct at least one concrete poem. I did one in Decadence called 'Murmuration' which is about the pattern of starlings in the sky. On the page, the words were set up as though they were birds mid-flight.
So, I wanted to do something similar with at least one poem in Essence. The briefcase that Willy Loman in Death of a Salesman carries around is integral to his personality, so the poem ‘Deflated’ is shaped like a briefcase. It’s very much an important part of Loman and how he carries himself as a man. He’s a provider and the head of the family. He has to work otherwise he sees himself as a failure.
M: Could you describe the process of writing poems about specific works of art?
T: Most of them I know from memory, having seen them a long time ago. It’s not like I’ll watch a show, and then go write about it. The first poem in that section is about one of my favourite movies, In the Mood for Love. I’ve seen it at least half a dozen times, so I know it practically off by heart. That poem is a tribute to the movie, as is the one that summarises another favourite, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
There are also poems made out of song titles from iconic band The Cure, an ode to critics, a free style poem as interpretative dance and haiku about classic canonical texts. Essence is quite playful.
M: Were there any major changes to your writing routine from your first books?
T: No, I’m the kind of writer that writes impulsively and spontaneously. If I feel like something needs to be put down on paper, I do it. Because I’m a poet, I’m not a fiction writer. Fiction writers seem to have these really intense schedules of solid slogs of writing … I don’t do that. As a poet, I write in between everything. I scribble things down at my day job and while I’m waiting for the train or having breakfast. I write in-between life, basically. In the margins of life.
M: You said in a previous interview with UWAP you could "…never write something as long and time-consuming as a novel." Has that changed?
T: I still stick to that. The only thing that might change if I ever write another book would be the format. For instance, I might consider doing a verse novel … a novel but in poetic form, one continuous story that’s told through a series of poems. But to do that, I need to find a very strong story.
I would never write a traditional fiction. It’ll all be done in poetry somehow because I’m impatient and efficient and these are the two main qualities that make me a poet. I like instant gratification; I like it when I write down an idea and ten minutes later, it’s done. I might go back and tinker, but the essence …the essence of the idea has already been captured.
M: What challenges experienced with previous books have you overcome with Essence?
T: I guess I’m slightly less anxious about this third one. With the first book, I didn’t really know what I was doing. Prior to Turbulence I was known primarily as a critic, so there was a huge transition moving from a critic to a poet. There were a lot of unknowns and I didn’t know if anyone would take me seriously, but this is the third book, so I hope there are people out there who would now see me as both a critic and a poet.
I feel less worried about reception, and frankly, I don’t care. You just have to remember your writing will never appeal or please everyone. I know this from being a critic for so long. You do the best you can, and you try to be true to yourself. I’m never going to change the way I write because of what the market dictates. I’m always going to write what I want to write.
Photograph by David Boarder Giles
M: Does your work as a critic influence your writing?
T: I’ve said this before, but the commonality between criticism and poetry is that you have to get into the details. Fine-tuning and being aware of the little things. You have to dive into, once again, the essence of things. For example, when doing a book review, you can’t just say something is good or bad. You have to say why. The same goes with poetry. You have to go deeper than surface level. My work has trained me to focus on the small details. It’s all about perception. Criticism taught me to be confident in my opinions, and poetry does the same.
The poetry in all three collections is very personal. I have been told by many people that I have been very brave to present my life to the public, but there is nothing brave about it. I’m just being honest. I am completely honest in my criticism, so why shouldn’t I be honest in my poetry? They may be mediated through art, but the essence, emotions and experiences are real. All I have done is transform them into poetry.
M: Essence touches on similar themes found in your previous books. Was this intentional?
T: I write about love and lust and loss in all three collections. To me, they are evergreen topics. I think it’s very important to write about them because regardless of your background, your race, your faith, or your political leanings, you will fall in and out of love, and you will lose someone. They are experiences that affect all of us, so that’s why I constantly write about them.
The one emotion that I hope readers take from my books is what I put into them: passion. For life, for the arts, for language, for grammar and typography. Passion underscores all three collections.
M: Have you seen an evolution in your poetry throughout your publications?
T: I’m very close to the material, so I have no idea if I have evolved or if I’m doing the same thing. I would like to think I’m more confident in my writing now, but I don’t know. With all three books, I have tried to be experimental. There was a poem that was written like a play script in Decadence, in all three books there are concrete poems and prose poems, Haiku, free verse, rhymes, poems using lists, and several with no punctuation. All my books are written for people like me; bookish folk who like playing with words.
M: Which poets inspire your writing style?
T: Maxine Beneba Clarke. I really like her, because her style is very simple and concise, but she really packs a punch. And she writes political poems, poems about family, race … about everything. It’s easy and simple to read. You don’t have to have a degree in English Literature to understand it. She’s a slam poet, too. If you ever have the luxury of hearing her read, it’s really something else. She’s a wonderful writer on the page, but she’s even better when she reads out her poetry. I really respect her. I guess she’s my number one Australian poet. There are probably too many inspirations, so I’ll stick with one for the time being.
M: What is the ideal afterlife you hope for this book?
T: I am having two launches in Melbourne for this book, and for the first one, one of my friends will turn an Essence poem into song. This was what happened for my Decadence launch; a friend of a friend sung one of the poems accompanied by acoustic guitar. I would love to work with other artists, as I have in the past. For example, several poems in Decadence were rendered into artworks.
A highlight was when the Western Australian Symphony Choir transformed my poem ‘Murmuration’ into a choir song. It was performed at a beautiful Gothic church, St Mary’s Cathedral in Perth, and I travelled all the way from Melbourne to see it.
My ideal wish for Essence is for it to have a life outside the page. I would love to have cross-collaborations, cross-fertilisations with other artists and see my poetry be translated into different creative forms, whatever they may be.
Essence by Thuy On is out now from UWA Publishing. Order your copy online.
Maria Kakani is a student at Murdoch University completing a Bachelor of Arts, with a double major in Sociology, and English & Creative Writing. In her final semester, she plans to move on to do her Honours in Creative Writing.